Podcast Episode #3: The Future of Convenience Store Retail
You can find a summary of the podcast and the links here.
Here is the full transcript for that podcast.
Mush Khan: Welcome everybody to today’s edition of The NOW Revolution.
Today we have Frank Beard with us and we’re really excited to talk about what’s happening in the retail fuel space. So much is changing and it’s a very dynamic environment. We’re excited about Frank being with us today to talk about that area of the fuel supply chain. So, Frank, welcome. Why don’t you give us a bit of your background? I’d love it if you would share with the audience on what you did around eating, I think, was for 30 days or something, at convenience stores. Tell us about your background how you got to this point and then share with us that story and what you learned.
Frank Beard: Yeah, it’s not really a normal thing for most people to spend a month, eating at convenience stores, unless maybe you were fortunate to live in Tokyo and go by some of their convenience stores, which you can easily eat out for many months at a time, but here in the U.S., it’s a little less of a common thing.
I’d gone through a really large weight loss experience a few years back and whenever you do that, you just by default get plugged into the conversation around what it means to live a healthy life and the whole debates around that. And one of the things that I just kept hearing, is this idea that eating on the go, is part of this proverbial problem but it’s not. It’s not at all, there’s nothing inherently wrong with eating on the go. I know it probably sounds funny, you know, talking about this now that COVID hit and you know people are probably cooking at home more than they did prior.
Modern Life, this issue aside is lived on the go for many people. What I decided to do was contribute to this conversation by eating at convenience stores for over a month. I think it’s like 34 days just because of how the weeks were arranged. It was much easier than many people would assume. And that’s because today’s convenience stores sell a lot of healthier options. Even in the absolute worse situation where the stereotypical smokes and coke type of station, you can still find mixed nuts. You can still find sparkling water, there’s probably bananas on the counter and virtually every convenience store in the United States at this point. It’s not difficult. In fact, I even lost an extra six pounds doing it, which I thought was absolutely hilarious.
Mush Khan: So, what were you doing work wise while you were on this journey, or did you just have this weird inclination to eat at convenience stores for 34 days straight?
Frank Beard: Fortunately, the type of work that I was doing at the time took me all around the United States four or five days a week. I think one time I went to a book three different flights and the span of about four days, it was just crazy. But because of that that introduced like a level of variability to it that made it interesting, because I couldn’t just go to like a Kum & Go, or I couldn’t just stick with a Kwik Star. You could eat 30 days at a Kwik Star no problem, it’d be super easy. So this mixed it up and it forced me to have to get creative on a few occasions, but I think in the end I have visited nine States during that month and spent a lot of time down in Texas and that actually made it really interesting.
Mush Khan: What were you doing in the retail space back then? Were you selling them food, were you providing other kinds of services? Tell us more about your occupation.
Frank Beard: No, so I actually wasn’t even connected to the C store space back then. It’s kind of funny how I got involved in the C store industry. It was really pretty much through this. I started to realize that one of the benefits of traveling around so much for work was actually getting to spend time in C stores in virtually every market in the United States. I mean, not just going to stores off of major interstates, or in suburban and urban areas, but I mean I was traveling on county roads and going into stores in the middle of nowhere. So, I was literally seeing everything and I started to realize that there was a lot of value in that beyond just having fun with this diet experiment and ended up pivoting to do speaking and consulting projects and a number of things. As a result, and then joined up for three and a half years with the team at Gas Buddy. It’s such a fun, dynamic, and exciting industry. I don’t know how anyone can be involved with it and not enjoy what they do.
Mush Khan: Yeah, that’s so interesting that you would come into the industry that way. I think that’s an unusual way to enter this industry. So many of us would have started out at the wholesale distributor space or maybe directly in retail, but I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody that came into the industry after eating out of convenience stores for 34 days.
Frank Beard: It’s a very nontraditional path into a career that is for certain and honestly, I’d probably still spend way too much time eating at convenience stores but that’s one of the things, if you want to know what’s going on in the industry, you have to actually spend time in stores. I’m always kind of amazed when sometimes folks don’t and you know I think for retailers, especially, it is so valuable to get out of the corporate office and go shop at your stores as a customer. I’m sure there’s still probably people at Sears that think America shops at Sears, despite all the evidence to the contrary. If you’re not in your stores, you just don’t know what’s going on. It’s as simple as that.
Mush Khan: That’s a great lead into what’s happening now in the industry. You spent several years in the industry with Gas Buddy, and obviously spent a lot of time in C stores. What are you seeing as the sort of the big things happening right now in the retail space and the big trends that seem to be emerging?
Frank Beard: You know one thing for this industry is the way that business models are sort of splitting off into three distinct paths. Now I can’t take full credit, you know, for this part, I’m working on a paper with a friend and a consultant, on this currently that we’re going to release at some point. Essentially what we’re kind of identifying, and this is stuff that most folks are probably aware of, but it just putting some structure around it is, you really got three distinct business models that have paths forward. You’ve got the QSRs (Quick Service Restaurants), the Sheetz, the Wawa’s, the KTs of the world.
Those stores can outcompete anything if you drop one of them right across from it. They’re so good at what they do, and you know their stores stand on their own. They sell fuel, yes, but with or without it, those stores are still going to have plenty of traffic because they’re amazing at food service.
Frank Beard: Then you’ve got the consolidators. The Circle K’s of the world, the GPM investments, those kinds of companies, but, you know, those guys are going to essentially operate the traditional convenience store model. What many of us would associate with the term gas station, but they’re going to do it better and more efficiently and probably considerably smarter than just about anyone else. You know, they read their documents, they talk the language of cost reduction efficiencies. They’re out there chasing economies of scale.
Then you’ve got the merchant supported fuel canopies. I mean, these are just tactical levers in the arsenal of companies that really don’t need to be making money on fuel. I mean if they can compete on price either virtually nobody can. And quite honestly, they’re probably well positioned to capture some of the demand for chargers for anyone who’s not charging at home once they start adding electric vehicles into the mix. What’s to stop one of the groceries from just making that free or giving a huge discount to someone who’s part of their loyalty program. They can do things with that that others can’t. So really, if you position those on as points on the triangle, anyone swimming in the middle in no man’s land is just at a huge competitive disadvantage, and they need to pick a side.
And that’s where you see some of these wild cards coming out as kind of a fourth category. A good example, if anyone follows Lou Perrine’s Gas and Grocery on Twitter. I mean, there is no store in the country like that place. I mean, it’s impossible to watch what they do and not just smile because it’s like the coolest store in the world. Again, that’s a very, very differentiated business model, and it stands on its own, apart from those other three.
Mush Khan: Do you think that there is this sort of this emerging localization happening with some of these stores? So, you talked about sort of the, the bigger models and scaled up models, etc. Is there an opportunity you think to become even more localized? So, for example, if you were in Houston, Texas. or Des Moines, Iowa, having sort of a brand around what’s happening around you locally. Is that something that’s emerging in your view?
Frank Beard: Yeah, I think that’s a huge opportunity for independent operators and there’s a lot of that happening. I’ve spoken with dozens of owners of those outlier, independent stores that we all know and love. You know the guys that just sell absurd amounts of grandma’s fried chicken every day or they turn these family recipes and these big sellers and they do things that are probably fairly difficult to scale, but they do make it exceptionally well. One thing that always comes up is that they grew that along with their community.
Frank Beard: I remember I was having a conversation with the guy that owns Papu’s in Kansas City. And it was the same thing, like he was out there cooking every type of food imaginable when he started doing what he’s doing, to see what people actually liked to eat. He grew this with his community.
Mush Khan: Where did he end up landing on his food choice, and how has that story played out?
Frank Beard: Yeah, it was actually Mediterranean food. It’s kind of kind of what he ended up with and it’s good. If you talk to folks in Kansas City and say who has the best Mediterranean food? At some point someone’s definitely going tell you Papu’s Cafe. It’s no joke. I mean, he’s out there grinding his own spice blends. I sat there and watched the amount of just to go orders that came out of that place online. It was just staggering and who would have thought it’s just out of a convenience store, but this sense of like localization.
What’s tougher in the independent operators. There are the single store guys who are still kind of running that mediocre smokes and cokes model. Here’s the thing, the consolidators are going to come in and do that do that better than anyone and they’re going to have more room in their margins. They’re going to be more sophisticated on their category management, they’re just going to operate a better store. That if you differentiate yourself through your offer, your brand, or having the best restrooms in the city, whatever it is, there’s a chance to just do one thing and do it better than anyone else and create a powerful brand out of it.
If it was me, I’d probably run in the direction of maybe doing a cleanest restrooms in the city, something crazy like that, but of course, you got to follow through with it.
Mush Khan: Yeah, you do. Absolutely. So, there’s some other trends that are happening right now. And I think I’ve seen you posting on these on LinkedIn about people like DoorDash and I think goPuff and others who were offering door delivery of convenience items. How do you see that playing out through the convenience store market, and how do you think that could sort of impact them?
Frank Beard: Yeah, the issue of delivery is interesting. Fuel and convenience, as a whole, I think it really taken kind of a wait and see approach to delivery. You had a couple of examples of folks that were fairly early adopters, but for the most part, industry was not really making moves in that direction and then COVID happened. Almost overnight, you had retailers that were scrambling to figure something out. And I think what this resulted in was a lot of third-party partnerships. But now that the dust is settling and you’re kind of seeing there’s some real issues with the third party model, not the least of which is DoorDash just announced that they’re going to compete with their own partners.
You know, and we’ve watched what happened with Amazon in recent years, it’s you know it’s highly unlikely that Amazon just happens to be really passionate about selling indoor radiators and heaters and all these weird obscure categories that you see on Amazon basics. It’s probably more likely, and what seems to be the case, is they just look for top performers in each category. They go get an alternative manufactured under their own brand, and then they sell it cheaper and then they advertise it on their own platform. I mean, they’ve been doing this for a while. So, what’s the stop at third party from just getting all these partners, study the data, and then see where they can drop their own dark stores and just create a virtual brand like what DoorDash is doing right now.
Mush Khan: Yeah, I think that reinforces your point about having something that is truly unique and something that you can point to something like DoorDash or Amazon can’t replicate and this notion of localization or some other feature about your C Store that that only you can do and like Papu’s Café in Kansas City. Just that story of trying all these different foods and landing on something and being led by his community, etc. Amazon and DoorDash can’t tell that story. I think it’s hard but being able to discover that I think is critical.
Frank Beard: Well, here’s the kind of worries me about the DoorDash example. I just wrote an article on this for Global Convenience Store Focus, that came out this morning and if you look at DoorDash and how they handled their announcement about DashMart. The language was interesting. It was like they were talking about a charity initiative. What they’re talking about on their own blog, that is how they’re partnering with local merchants who sell like hot sauces, or spice rubs or just those things that we’ve all got companies in our communities that make those sorts of things that are hyper localized and you just love like Gusto Pizza seasoning and Des Moines, Iowa. My God, that stuff is incredible. You know, and we buy from a local spice store. They’re partnering with those kinds of companies to also include their products alongside the Doritos of the world. Now that’s interesting because that’s a huge point of differentiation from you know what 7-11 is selling on DoorDash, for example. Which is kind of just the staple products.
Let’s think like worst case scenario, what could DoorDash do with this. Imagine that every city where they’ve got a store that I mean this is what I would advise them to do. I would say you need to drop a single flagship retail store and every market that you’ve got DashMart in. Call it DashMart Chicago, DashMart Minneapolis, and basically you need to combine a micro fulfillment center with a food hall. But rather than doing like gentrified takes on street food, make the entire experience based around these local partners, they should have their own booths there, they should be giving out LTOs or they should be giving out samples of new proprietary spice blends and things like, hey, we’re trying this out, vote on which one’s your favorite. The food truck should have one different thing from one of their partners included, whether it’s a sauce or something.
You can look through windows and watch the micro fulfillment center operating and then DoorDash bags are zipping across the ceiling on hooks through a wall into a delivery area. Basically, it’s kind of like what Fresh Hippo does, but just with a food hall. If they did that, suddenly you’ve got people that are getting on the DoorDash platform, and when they see DashMart. That’s where they’ve had a first date. That’s where they go with their friends after work on Friday for cocktails and suddenly you’ve got a real brand. And you know, it’s kind of like what Dominoes did with DXP. Like, you don’t have to have a physical store by everyone. They don’t even have to really ever visit it, but the fact that they know that’s there, makes a difference. You know dominoes with those DXP delivery vehicles. They found that basically your average dominoes customer is never going to see one of those, the value was not in actually using them. It was using those as a marketing tool and putting them on TV. That’s what the value was.
There’s just so many ways that DoorDash could go with this. And this is where retailers just need to kind of wake up and realize, like these guys are your competitors. They’re trying to take business away. You got to be more sophisticated with delivery than we’re on DoorDash.
Mush Khan: One of the things we talked about and what you just talked about reminded me of that conversation around customer experience. In your view, how would you describe sort of the state of customer experience and this part of the industry, and where are the some of the opportunities that the players in the market could go from here?
Frank Beard: There’s some big gaps in customer experience in the C Store industry. You know, on one hand, you’ve got outliers like Buc-ees. Buc-ees is just the absolute best customer experience, period. I went in with a friend one time, who was kind of anti-corporate, and was like, well, I’d rather go to independent. I’m like no, come in Buc-ees with me. And he was saying is going to be too corporate and stiff and we walk in and he’s like, see that person didn’t greet me. I’m like, come on, you don’t need to be greeted, come with me. I’m going to show you something and we go back to the jerky counter and we start looking at the jerky. And I asked the employee, I said hey, what’s your favorite and they just sprang into action. Oh, okay. Well do you like spicy. Do you like sweet and I mean it turned into this fun like beef jerky sampling moment. And then another employee came up and started arguing with the other one, say, no, no, no, no, no, don’t listen to him. This is what you want. And I’m like, okay, that’s an awesome customer experience. And that’s what they excel at, but Buc-ees, you can go in a store that’s 10 years old and it looks brand new today.
They don’t cut any corners. And the problem is though, you see a lot of retailers who are trying to chase these higher order tactics and strategies, but they don’t have the solid foundation of the customer experience basics that you need before you even go that route. Like, I went in a store in Kentucky. I mean, it could be anywhere, but I went in a store that had a brand new bean to a cup coffee machine, a really high end one, that was sitting on a countertop across from a restroom that smelled in a store that would have been out of date two decades ago. Yeah, rather than buying that coffee machine because that’s clearly not a coffee shop at that point, you got to fix those basics. If you don’t have customer service right, if you don’t have safety and you don’t have cleanliness down, you can’t build on that.
Mush Khan: No, that’s right. And I love the story of Buc-ees and being from Texas and living in Texas. Buc-ees is such an incredible brand around and you’re right it’s an amazing experience. I know lots of families, including mine, where we plan our stops around Buc-ees. They began with the concept of marketing clean restrooms. But once you’re in there’s so much to do. And I also find this interesting, but I don’t think they ever post a price for fuel.
Frank Beard: You got to go look at the pumps and I’ve told this to so many people. And I’m like, guys, Buc-ees does not put the price of gas on the pylon because they don’t need to. No one cares. You know that you’re not going to get a bad deal there. You know you’re going to get a good price. All they’ve got on the pylon is a gigantic beaver logo. That’s what matters. That’s what people are looking for, is they want that Buc-ees brand and they want that experience. I mean I’ve sat in their store for like a couple hours at a time and just watch people come in and out of it, and they walk in and they and they use language like “We’re here.” Like it’s a relief. Like they journeyed to get there.
You know that’s just incredible. The people I’m stealing this idea from Ernie Harker, who is one of the smartest guys on branding ever but I know Ernie’s real big about how brands or companies need to think, “All right. When someone leaves your store. What do you actually want them to say?”
And I would argue that also a lot of stores need to be asking what they are actually saying. Get on Google Maps and look at your reviews. People will pay for these expensive mystery shops, a couple times a year, but then you’ll see companies won’t actually have a policy in place to monitor the feedback that’s coming in real time on Google Maps and act on it. People tell you what’s not working.
Mush Khan: Sure. Well, what a great question, what do you want people to say, and because that really brings you into focusing on your brand and what you want that experience to be for people. I think it seems like that all of us in this industry could use that question as a great branding exercise.
On the retail side of things, or if you’re a wholesaler, distributor, carrier, or even refiner, I think that we should all ask that question. So, let’s turn a little bit to fuel and I know you’re not a fuel guy per se, but you obviously have a lot of experience with the world of C Stores and retail. How do you see these kinds of things affecting how people purchase fuel or perhaps even sort of the demand for fuel going forward? Do you think it’s sort of shifting, changing, how do you see it?
Frank Beard: Yeah, I think the whole shift to remote work is just going to completely change the game in a lot of ways. It’s pretty much as well excepted at this point, COVID accelerated a lot of trends that were already happening. If you look at the data on remote work, it was growing for years, it was still a smaller percentage of the population. I mean, I’ve done it for almost four years now, it’s wonderful, but the forecast right now are suggesting that one in six, one in five, depending on what forecast you’re looking at, as much as 20% of the workforce could be working from home in the near future after COVID.
You know, granted a lot more currently are doing that. And especially back in April and May, but there’ll be some roll back and some offices reopen, but a lot of people aren’t going to be going back. And the thing is people who are working remotely are getting fuel economy in miles per week not miles per gallon. It’s changing how they conduct their lives. And the other thing you’ve got going on is COVID exposed a lot of customers to e-commerce solutions that they would not have otherwise tried for the first time, or maybe would have tried years down the road. I mean Instacart on their blog was talking about how they had three years of projected growth in like 30 days.
You know it’s not a long shot to think that someone who’s been buying groceries on Instacart is suddenly looking at the idea of going to an 80,000 square foot warehouse every two weeks and spending an hour and a half, walking around picking their own groceries. And thinking why was I even doing that. I mean, I’ll go back to a Hy-Vee, occasionally, you know when this is over. Just because they always have good samples and it’s kind of a fun way to get out of the house, but for the most part, I’ll just have them bring me my groceries. I don’t need to go there.
Mush Khan: Well, I don’t know anyone that looks forward to filling up their cars with gas.
Frank Beard: So, on top of how this is kind of rewiring how a certain percentage of the country lives and works. No one likes pumping gas. No one likes buying gas. If you look at the stats on how little discretionary income a lot of Americans have, I mean our Americans are flat out broke. Let’s be real here. A lot of Americans are just plain broke and it’s going to be worse, given what happened here with COVID. Buying gas eats into money that they need for other things, they’re not happy to do it. So, on top of that, you see that the data shows people aren’t brand loyal when it comes to fuel either. When I was at Gas Buddy. We had put out this study basically looking at six months of transaction data through pay with Gas Buddy, this industry is historically really difficult to analyze at scale, because it’s so fragmented. But since that payment card is used all over the country, it was an interesting look into what’s going on. And we found that only 19% of consumers would fill up exclusively at one brand in any given month. Now of that 19% I’m sure if you dig into that more you’re going to find a lot of it is just convenience based or it’s a guy goes to Cumberland farms, because he’s drinking their coffee. You’re buying coffee four days a week and you’re probably going to get your gas there too.
So, with fuel, I think this all together creates a couple situations. One is if you’re going to grow volume, you’re probably going to have to start stealing share from your competitors. That’s what’s going to happen. And that’s going to be difficult, as you’ve got consolidation happening. And as you’ve got these merchant canopies that can just drop the price super low and compete if they need to. HEB is always going to be a cheap place to get gas. But at the same time for everyone else, you got to consider what is it like to fill up at your station. Are you going to be afraid if you’re there at night? Do you feel safe? Is it clean? Because what people ignore about these companies like Kwik Trip and Kum & Go, is they’ve got a lot of stuff going on inside the store and that drives you know fuel sales too, but it’s also a safe place to refill your car. Their canopies are state of the art, they’re clean, they’re well lit. They make it a very pleasant experience.
Mush Khan: I agree with you, Frank, very much. Let’s sort of switch gears just a little bit to some of the supply chain partners that are involved and retail like a wholesaler, or perhaps a carrier. Let’s say I want to put you on the spot. Let’s say that you’re talking to a carrier right now and this carrier is routinely making deliveries into the retail fuel segment. And perhaps a struggling a little bit, not as many loads and then the beginning to experience sort of this leveling off of demand or maybe decline of demand. What advice would you give to someone like that today, that they should at least start thinking about in terms of how they can begin embracing some of the changes that are happening? So they don’t get sort of just completely taken out of the marketplace.
Frank Beard: I’d say a couple things. I think one, is as hard as it is people just have to not be afraid of what the data show about certain trends. I was on a webinar, the other day, and someone was sharing some data on fuel consumption and I just got the sense that what they were really trying to do was try and force it to show a positive outlook. They were so vested in the idea of getting back to normal. That’s how they were trying to look at it, instead of just asking what this is really telling me, maybe we’re not going to get back to normal. I mean normalcy and even in a stable time is always a moving target. You just got to be a realist. I mean, don’t be afraid of what it’s showing you. And if you’re seeing something you don’t like then you got to ask, well, how can we pivot. What does this mean we need to do?
But the other thing is I think one of the things that makes this industry particularly unique is a spirit of collaboration. Even competitors will share I ideas because they’re not afraid of the competition, they’ll do it better than the other guy. It doesn’t matter if he knows what they’re doing. This spirit of collaboration is like one of the biggest advantages that this industry has. And I think what everyone needs to do is help their partners succeed. You know when you’re, especially the smaller retailers. I mean, anyone who works with them, be their advocate, like if you see something if you have suggestions. If you share your perspectives with them, help them be better at what they do. I mean, if they’re better at what they do, they’re going to buy more whatever you’re selling. It’s that simple. But if everyone, it sounds silly, but if everyone works together and it honestly doesn’t make a difference.
Mush Khan: Well, I think that’s really good advice, Frank. I think the idea of embracing the data for what it actually is. And I think we’ve all been in that situation where we look at all, whether it’s market data or company financial data, etc. And you really want it to be something else. You really want the old way to be the way going forward and there are times when that’s just not true. And, I loved your data point about Instacart and how multiple years of growth were distilled down into thirty days. And that, I think that speaks to this notion that you described, which is that COVID is a catalyst for change that was happening. And it’s just moved everything at lightspeed. And so, I think if you’re a carrier or wholesaler and perhaps you are okay for two, three, four, or five years or ten years on something. But all that’s been accelerated and I think you’re right, that you’ve got to embrace the fact that’s happening and I also love this idea of reaching out to the people that you’re serving, perhaps even the people that you’re competing with and what can we do together as a team. How can we come together and figure this out so we don’t lose massive parts of our industry?
Frank Beard: Yeah, I would have to think of how I would say this, but I think personally, I always tried to take the idea of an anti-fragile mindset, where this isn’t a storm to be weathered. You’re not just doing fine. You’re not treading water. Dig in and thrive in these moments. Weirdly enough, and I know it’s a sensitive subject of some folks who may have had issues with family members getting COVID or maybe themselves, personally, and it’s a tough time for a lot of people but I graduate from undergrad in 2008 and was dumped into that economy. I mean these things are full of opportunities if you look, they kind of re-shuffled the cards a little bit and it gets a little crazy but the opportunity is there and there’s so many lessons to take away from it. I think smart business leaders will dig in and they’ll say, Okay, what’s really happening here. And how can we benefit from this in the short term, but how do we need to adjust long term.
Rather than saying, I need to weather the storm until we get back to normal or hey, at least we’re treading water. No, no thrive. Like, look for ways to thrive during this. And one thing I would caution everyone on to, especially on fuel is, look what happened with the collapse of crude there and how this has impacted margins. Like, that’s basically a fluke. That’s not reflective of sound business models if suddenly fuel sales are really high. I mean, there’s historically high margins. Right. You know, during that like, that’s great. And that’s going to help a lot of people kind of cushion the blow from this. But don’t get reliant on that. Think okay was my business model actually prepared for a time when there was an enormous demand destruction and if it wasn’t, then how do you make it so next time that happens or in the future if there is a demand destruction. How do you make it so your business actually thrives? And I think what’s interesting is the Kwik Trips of the world, those stores stand on their own, with or without fuel. They can open up locations that don’t have fuel and there and they’re going to thrive. Those kinds of companies are prepared for this, but the ones that are just relying on the routine of the work commute to sell a bunch of gasoline and then trying to lure a couple people to come in and buy a candy bar or a cheap fountain drink. Maybe you need to start asking how do we pivot our business to actually meet what customers are looking for right now?
Mush Khan: Well, I think that’s really great closing advice for everybody that it’s a tough time but instead of being defensive about it, let’s find a way to capitalize on what’s happening because real changes are happening. And I think a lot of businesses in space can thrive so Frank, where can people find you online. How can they get in touch with you?
Frank Beard: Easiest way. Just get on LinkedIn. I don’t think ZZ tops drummer is on there so I’m pretty sure I might be the only Frank Beard. I’m pretty easy to find. Otherwise, yeah. LinkedIn is great start there. You can follow me on Twitter. It’s just @Frankbeard. I post a lot of articles about everything I’ve been discussing here. And then also my website, which is just Frankbeard.org. I’m redoing that so it’s now rerouted to my podcast, the inconvenience podcast.
Mush Khan: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today was a great conversation and looking forward to talking to you more about what’s happening in the retail space. And I’d like to thank everybody else for joining The NOW Revolution podcast, hope you have an amazing day today. Thank you.
Frank Beard: Yeah, thank you.
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